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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm
Posts: 7864
Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 0
Hello all,

I thought I would set this post up because I believe it covers a topic that is very important.

What to do if a retailer offers a repair?

The problems with the Nvidia GPU's are spread far and wide. The defect is present in virtually every version of Nvidia GPU including 8600, 8400, 7600, 7200, 7000, 6500, 6150 etc etc etc

There is no denying this fact. The retailers may say "your laptop is not on HP's list" or "your laptop is not on Sony's list" but that it totally irrelevant.

Just because a manufacturer has not put their hands up and admitted that there is a problem with your model of laptop doesn't mean that it is not inherently defective.

Replacement mainboards also contain these defective Nvidia GPU's.

When manufacturers are making these laptops they also produce a significant amount of spare parts at the same time.

It follows therefore that the defective Nvidia GPU's that are resident in laptops are also resident in the spare parts that exist.

It is for this very reason that we are finding laptops failing for a second and third time after a repair.

Even Staples, one of the better retailers for handling this problem have stated that no reliable parts are available and simply refund or replace the laptop.

It is very important, if you are offered a repair, to ask for a written guarantee that the parts being used will be free from fault.

In legal terms this is known as "reserving your rights"

You should ask the retailer for a written guarantee, on company headed notepaper (no emails) that states the following:-

"The mainboard being used to repair your laptop is from a completely new batch and is 100% free of the Nvidia defect. If, at some point in the future, it transpires that the mainboard is indeed inherently defective due to the Nvidia GPU then a refund or replacement laptop will be offered"

It is very important that you get this guarantee, with that wording, prior to accepting a repair.

Will the retailers offer such a written guarantee?

I doubt it!

If they are prepared to give the written guarantee then they are saying there is a new redesigned board that is not potentially inherently defective. If this is the case there will be a technical document produced for this board which is publicly available.

You should request the part number of the new motherboard in order to be able to verify that it is indeed a new redesigned board.

If they refuse to offer this warranty then you should reject the offer on the grounds that as they do not have the confidence to offer a written guarantee then you do not have the confidence to accept the repair.

If you do proceed to the Small Claims Courts then you have to show you have acted reasonably.

It would not be unreasonable for you to reject an offer of repair if the parts being used were as doomed to failure as the parts they were replacing.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================


If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:45 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 136
Laptop Make: HP
Model: DV9288ea
Graphics Card: 7400
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 1200
Date Purchased: 09 Apr 2007
Date Failed: 22 Aug 2009
Well done Paul!

Hopefully this will prevent people from making the mistake of simply opting for the free repair without giving it some thought first!

In order to end the questioning of the replacement parts everyone needs to call the parts centre and enquire as to whether or not HP are supplying them with 'newer, revised' ones:
Chiltern IT Parts
01753 890088

You'll first be forwarded to a receptionist. First you should ask him/her if you can be redirected to an engineer since you have a technical question regarding one of your HP laptop components. The second step however depends on how you intend on obtaining the information from the engineer. You could be honest with them by giving them the story of the NVIDIA defect and your laptop or you could just refrain from the story and supply your laptop part number. The third and final step would be for the engineer to send you a letter confirming that the replacement parts you are 'new, revised' or the same used throughout the past 2-3 years.

Hopefully people will attempt this and post their results here :ugeek:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 21
Laptop Make: HP
Model: tx2150ea
Graphics Card: 6150 GO
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 675
Date Purchased: 15 Mar 2008
Date Failed: 23 Dec 2009
If HP (or any other manufacturer) had redesigned the motherboards, or manufactured a new batch from 100% guaranteed defect-free nVidia chips, then surely they would have allocated them a new part number, or at the very least, a new revision number. Otherwise how could they identify them in the field?

Might be worth asking for the part/revision number of the replacement boards, and comparing with the original?

I agree with Paul and would be very surprised if there were any mobos out there which could be 100% guaranteed free of defects. The real issue, as I see it, is how we prove this to a Court, so that we can demonstrate we're not being unreasonable in refusing a repair.

Also, and worryingly, retailers offering a repair seem to be doing so in "full and final settlement"; which means that we'll have no comeback whatsoever if the repair fails outside of the repair warranty, which is usually 90 days or less.

Another shabby trick to deny us our fair and reasonable rights.

It's our responsibility to prove our laptops were inherently defective.

However, once we've done that, it then becomes the retailer's responsibility to prove that their proposed solution (=repair) will remove the inherent defect.

How about ..."I put <insert your favourite retailer here> to strict proof that the proposed repair will remove the inherent defect".


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:40 pm 
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Site Admin

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm
Posts: 7864
Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 0
Hello,

Quote:
Also, and worryingly, retailers offering a repair seem to be doing so in "full and final settlement"; which means that we'll have no comeback whatsoever if the repair fails outside of the repair warranty, which is usually 90 days or less.


Which is exactly why I tell members to ask for a written guarantee.

This, in legal terms, is called "reserving your rights" and means that if a repair fails then the retailer is responsible for either refunding or replacing the laptop.

Will the retailer give you such a written guarantee?

I very much doubt it.

In the absence of such a written guarantee no court would think you had acted unreasonably for not having the confidence to accept a repair when the retailer in question did not have the confidence to guarantee it.

That is all the evidence you need.

You don't have to prove the repair would contain an inherently defective GPU, the retailer has to prove that it won't.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================


If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:16 pm
Posts: 421
Laptop Make: HP
Model: G6000
Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 399
Date Purchased: 01 Mar 2007
Date Failed: 25 Sep 2009
Lapcure wrote:
In the absence of such a written guarantee no court would think you had acted unreasonably for not having the confidence to accept a repair when the retailer in question did not have the confidence to guarantee it.


Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence out there to show that the repairs are failing. Show some of this to a judge and you'll be completely justified in refusing to accept a repair without the guarantee.

_________________
Please note: I am not legally qualified and therefore any postings I make are just my own personal opinion based on my experience of working for a number of years at a busy County Court.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:29 pm
Posts: 42
Location: London, UK
Laptop Make: Compaq
Model: F504EA
Graphics Card: 6100 GO
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 399
Date Purchased: 14 May 2007
Date Failed: 23 Jan 2010
Before I start, this message will go a little off topic but it relates to PC World and their written guarantee.

As you know Paul, I sent my laptop to you for the report.

Before I did so, I was sent a letter by PC World asking me to call them.

I immediately did so, and the first question I asked the person was "why was I to call you."

I told to the man that the matter in question is relating to a dispute with an item I purchased and has legal concern. Therefore, if we communicate via letter, then there will be no mis-representation. Also, they can not back down on their word where they can via telephone.

The guy from PC World was very arrogant and said "No" he can not do that.

I was so frustrated by this guy and it left me wondering why? What will they gain by not corresponding in writing.

I personally think they do not want to be tied down in writing and its so easy for PC World to say, "we did not say that.' I also think that employees are in fear they may loose their job if they commit in writing.

Once I get the engineers report back, I will be very clear and sharp with them that I will not be calling them and all communication from now on must be via writing.

What do you think?

Regards
lace


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:17 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm
Posts: 7864
Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 0
Hello Lace,

PC Worlds attitude towards their customers never ceases to amaze me.

Like you said, once you have the report, if your laptop is indeed inherently defective, then you will be able to demand a refund or replacement. If they fail to comply you should just sue them.

Some people may think that my attitude towards some retailers is harsh. But I think that is justified.

I think some retailers behaviour towards customers has been exemplary and to this end Staples, in my view, come out tops.

PC World on the other hand fare less well.

Take a look at this link and read all about PC World:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_World_(retailer)#Criticisms

They ranked in the bottom 10 retailers in the UK in 2008.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================


If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:43 pm
Posts: 6
Laptop Make: Dell
Model: M1330
Graphics Card: 7600 GO
Purchased From: Direct From Manufacturer
Amount Paid: 700
Date Purchased: 31 May 2008
Date Failed: 10 Oct 2009
Hi all, I have unfortunately accepted 3 repairs from Dell, my extended warranty has now expired and the flickering white lines have returened despite being advised by the 'Manager' i spoke to India that the new mobo's they were using had resolved the issue.
I feel stupid but am about to kick up a mighty big stink. Will the fact that i have already had 3 repairs affect a refund claim? In all honesty I would prefer a replacement with the same spec but i don't know how likely that is.
Apologies if this is not the place to post this!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm
Posts: 7864
Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 0
Hello Brian and welcome to our forum.

I have answered this post already for you and that is here:- dell-advice-please-t641.html

If you have any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================


If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:35 am
Posts: 9
Laptop Make: Asus
Model: G1S - A1
Graphics Card: 8400M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 2000
Date Purchased: 07 Jul 2007
Date Failed: 10 Oct 2009
This forum has been great.

Right now I am dealing with the manufacturer and after a little hardball they are now offering free repair/motherboard replacement. Concerned that the replacement would have the same defect I requested to know what GPU would be on the new board (so still waiting for a response).

My question is regarding warranty, my laptop was just beyond the two year warranty, can I still push for a replacement or is free repair considered good will of the manufacturer (I am in Canada).

Many thanks

Detox


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