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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 4 posts ] 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 21
Laptop Make: HP
Model: Pavilion dv9233eu
Graphics Card: 7400
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 800
Date Purchased: 14 Mar 2007
Date Failed: 14 Jan 2011
I did a quick search and couldn't find any reference to this being posted already, and thought it definitely worth a mention.

I originally found reference to it on the OFT's "Sale of Goods Act hub" - a website in itself well worth a squizz if you've a spare 10 minutes, as it explains SoGA in pretty easy-to-understand terms, and isn't full of legal-ese. You can find the SoGA hub at http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/.

The mention of the regulations is in the explained section, at the end of item 3 ("When can a customer claim a refund..."). Aimed at retailers, the advice says:

Quote:
It is also against the law to mislead consumers about their legal rights - this could lead to a criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

You can read the legislation online at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/made, or download it as a PDF from http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/pdfs/uksi_20081277_en.pdf.

Everyone's case is different, and I'm also not legally qualified, so I can't say which of the sections or paragraphs you'd need to refer to regarding specific issues. However, the 'Interpretation' section right at the start (which is effectively a glossary of the terms used) contains a few items of note:

Quote:
  • "trader" means any person who in relation to a commercial practice is acting for purposes relating to his business, and anyone acting in the name of or on behalf of a trader;
  • "materially distort the economic behaviour" means in relation to an average consumer, appreciably to impair the average consumer’s ability to make an informed decision thereby causing him to take a transactional decision that he would not have taken otherwise;
  • "transactional decision" means any decision taken by a consumer, whether it is to act or to refrain from acting, concerning-
    (a) whether, how and on what terms to purchase, make payment in whole or in part for, retain or dispose of a product; or
    (b) whether, how and on what terms to exercise a contractual right in relation to a product.

Like I said, I'm not legally qualified, but my personal thoughts on this are:

  • The definition of trader would encompass third parties working for retailers, so if a customer service rep gives duff advice, but they work in a call centre not owned by the retailer, it shouldn't matter
  • Item (b) in the "transactional decision" definition would mean this legislation should cover your rights under SoGA - as you have entered into a contract with the retailer

Things don't look so bad after all for the consumer. I'm rather enjoying all of this research, you know :D


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm
Posts: 7864
Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 0
Hello Billy,

What a brilliant post. :gp

It is very informative and very relevant and so I will make your post a sticky so that it stays prominent on this site.

I love the bit which states:-

Quote:
It is also against the law to mislead consumers about their legal rights - this could lead to a criminal prosecution under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.


I guess this would include retailers telling customers that they are out of warranty and that there is nothing that they can do. Or telling customers to get in touch with the manufacturer as there is nothing the retailer can do.

I think that if members start to complain whenever they are given false or misleading information by retailers then the powers that be will soon clamp down on such illegal and immoral practices.

Thank you again for your post Billy, much appreciated.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 21
Laptop Make: HP
Model: Pavilion dv9233eu
Graphics Card: 7400
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 800
Date Purchased: 14 Mar 2007
Date Failed: 14 Jan 2011
I forgot to mention, schedule 1 (which starts about 1/4 into the document) is worth looking over as well:

Schedule 1: Commercial practices which are in all circumstances considered unfair

There are 30 or so items (with the various amendments) in fairly plain language, most of which are common sense.

Paul - your site has opened my eyes to to a lot of 'shady' practices, and provided me with some fantastic resources... so I'm only too happy to contribute and increase the pool of knowledge.

The funny thing is, while it's not my computer that died, my 24" iMac contains an Nvidia GeForce 8800 GS graphics card - and it really chucks out some heat, and the fans suck in a lot of dust - apparently a known problem with this model. When I took it in for servicing 2 days before the 3yr warranty expired (cheeky, but who cares :)), the engineer told me the life expectancy was 2 years, most likely due to the heat & dust issue. I guess I'm lucky that it has lasted over 3, although the screen isn't the brightest any more.

I don't think I'll ever really know what GPU it really has, though, as Apple often rebrands other models, downsizes HDD capacities in their firmware, etc (not fraudulently, I should add). I've seen various theories that have speculated so many options, that the shortlist isn't that short:

8700M / 8700M GT / 8800M / 8800M GTS, stock / 8800M GTS, underclocked / 8800 GT, underclocked / 8800M GTS / 9600GT, very underclocked

I don't care to be honest - as long as it's not a defective one :D


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:54 pm
Posts: 7864
Graphics Card: 8600M GS
Purchased From: High Street Store
Amount Paid: 0
Hello Billy,

Quote:
.....the engineer told me the life expectancy was 2 years


2 Years??

2 Years????

How scandalous is that!

I wonder why they don't tell customers that at the time of purchase?

You iMac should last at least five years and if it fails sooner and that fault is due to a BGA component (such as the GPU) then you may still have a right to claim against the retailer.

There is a big problem bubbling to the surface which is, in part, due to the ROHS (Reduction Of Harmful Substances) Directive.

In 2006 manufacturers had to start removing certain metals from their products. These include mercury, cadmium and, most importantly, lead.

It is the removal of the lead from the lead based solder that is causing failures in BGA type equipment.

A similar fault exists with the Xbox's and Playstations. Similarly, the HP 6725s, which has a ATI GPU, fails in much the same way as laptops with the Nvidia GPU.

A quick rework of the GPU soon brings the laptop back to life which proves, quite conclusively, the presence of the defect.

So it is quite possible that your Imac also has a similar defect. The Nvidia GPU itself doesn't have to be defective, just the underlying BGA grid.

Excessive heat will not do your iMac any good and could be the precursor to its demise.

Quote:
....the fans suck in a lot of dust - apparently a known problem with this model.


If that is the case then surely you would have grounds for a claim on the basis that there is a manufacturing defect which causes the iMac to suck in undue amounts of dust/debris?

Sorry to have to tell you that.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================


If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.


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