The Nvidia Defect Forum

Hi guys. Im basicaly an electronics engineer based in UK and just had a nice customer with a typical nvidia fault and he pointed me to this website. Being a curious person I've read few topics here and not all of it is true so I thought I might add few words to generall discusion.
As all of You here now know that nvidia manufactured faulty GPUs and I can be just another person to confirm that(This is not even HP fault)
Integral structure of the chip is mainly at fault and sometimes cracking solder under the chip. Fault appears usually due to clogged fans -> and high temperature. I repair many of these and I dont think I've seen a laptop with a clean fan so its always a good idea to have a can of air and use it once a month.
If a temperature of your GPU is over 80C in idle(G6100 and G6150) then You've got a clogged fan. Temperature in idle and stress should never exceed 85C. Normal temp is usually around 70-75C. G84 and G86 temp shoudnt be over 70C even in stress. New bios doesnt change a lot really and if You have a clean fan You wont notice any difference in battery performance or extra noise.
According to some topics I've read here repair is not possible and wont help. THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Repair can be performed and you can again work with your laptop.
How?
Im sure that at least admin knows that there are new nvidia GPUs and all of them manufactured after 2009 are FREE from usual fault. Its quite easy to get the G6100 and G6150 and not so easy with G84 and G86 but still possible to get them.
The problem is that You can get them only in HK or Eastern Europe where people know more about fixing laptops than here. The cost of a new chip varies between £25 and £45.
How to check if the chip is new?
Just look at your motherboard and the GPU chip and look for a DC code. Every chip has a number on the metal core like 2408 or 4807 which means 48th week 2007. If Your GPU has a DC code XX09 or XX10 then You've got a nice and fully updated motherboard and You dont have to worry about anything. There is no difference in the HP part number as far as the chip has been replaced. The board will be fully working and you can consider it as better than new one which is usually just a spare old part. Replacing the old chip with a new one manufactured before 2009 will still solve the problem at least for another 3 years as they work pretty good with new bios and You probably wont use same laptop for more than 3 years anyway. Obviously new - old manufactured chip - not 100% relaiable fix.
The problem with replacing these is that not many people know about it/do that in UK as its obviously not cheap and would cost up to £90-£100 and not to many customers are prepared to pay for it. Also I doubt that any high street stores have ever considered such repair and even know about it.
Usually if they offer repair its the cheapest reflow which usually work for no more than 3 months. Funny thing is that many repair shops(including ones which are used by high street shops) dont even know that solder under the chip needs to be heated up to over 217C and they heat it up up to 200C claiming that they repaired the motherboard.
Alternative repair is a proper BGA reballing which usually do the job but unfortunatelly its not always 100% relaiable due to damaged GPUs. This is cheaper then replacing the GPU but probably the best cost effective solution. The problem with reballing is that many repair shops will do just a reflow and will tell You that they've done a reball.
Reballing consists of replacing solder under the chip with a PB lead which is much better than lead free solder. You can always check it after repair if there is any burnt red glue on the sides of the chip. If there is - then they've done just a reflow and poor job. If most glue has been removed, there is no glue holding the chip then its possibly a good reballing.
So...
If You consider repair - ITS POSSIBLE, if You like your laptop and want to keep it, treat repair same as car service. Its not that expensive. Find a good repair shop, check everything, make sure they wont lie to You and good luck
And if You decide to do a proper repair - make sure its a new GPU with a DC Code 09+
Not going to advertise myself and its been honest post for all of You.
Lucas

Hello Lucas and welcome to our forum.

I am sorry to say that I have to disagree with you.

Repairs to these laptops are UNRELIABLE and PRONE TO FAIL. There can be no guarantees when reballing or reflowing a new GPU and anyone who states that this form of repair is 100% reliable is not telling the entire truth.

Time and time again I have seen laptops fail after having a replacement GPU reballed so I do know this for a fact.

You stated in your post:=



How can you state that replacing the GPU will "solve the problem at least for another 3 years as they work pretty good with new bios"?

I cannot understand how you can state that a repair will last for 3 years, on what evidence do you base this claim?

You also stated in your post:



First of all, the new boards that HP supply are, in fact, new and not "spare old parts" as you have stated. This issue here is that if HP has modified one of their mainboards with a "new" Nvidia GPU then they should have changed the part number of that mainboard to differentiate between that and the old defective boards.

They haven't, which in my opinion was quite stupid of them, so as a result nobody knows, from reading the part number, which boards are allegedly good and which contain the defective GPU's.

In any event, why should a customer, who purchased the laptop in good faith, have to put up with this?

Why should they have to accept a mainboard that has been reballed or reworked when there can be no 100% guarantee that this will be successful?

Even some of the retailers concur with me regarding the reliability of such repairs and certainly the reliability of the spare parts that are available.

My advice still stands which is reject the offer of a repair as they are, on the whole, unreliable and prone to failure. Instead you seek a refund or replacement laptop.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Hi Paul,
The fact is that new nvidia GPUs manufactured since 2009 do not have overheating issues. This was confirmed by nvidia itself, issue has been corrected and these are used by many laptop manufacturers even today. Temperature is also much lower with new GPUs with a DC code 09 or 10. Replacing the GPU with a new one with DC 09+ is considered as the only 100% relaiable fix by many experienced engineers across the electronics world and I use new GPUs in all my home laptops for at least last 12 months.(Like I said its pretty easy to check what GPU sit in your laptop) I also always give 12-24months warranty if the chip has been replaced for all my customers. Still most customers prefer cheaper reballing even tough I always explain the whole story. I agree with You that reballing isnt 100% relaiable fix due to the damaged chip and I dont even consider reflow as a repair.(unfortunately reflow is most popular solution in UK, same as with RROD on XBOX360)
Replacing the GPU with a new one(not reballed), factory sealed and manufactured before 2009 will solve the problem for at least 2-3 years as this is a typical life span of these GPUs as all of people here know from using their own laptops which typically brake within 2-3 years after purchase(this is the best evidence) and new bios should give at least few months more use before they brake.
No one really knows for sure as the oldest repair with a new - old chip(DC08) I've done in 09/08 and it still works fine and most of repairs when GPU was replaced took place in 2009.

Lucas,

The problem is that this goes totally against everything reported on this and numerous other forums.

Surely, if there was a reliable way to repair this defect then Nvidia, the manufacturers and the retailers would be shouting it from the rooftops and providing evidence to prove it?

There would also be no problem with them giving the standard wording guarantee often quoted on here.



In my experience (and that of many others on this forum) the typical lifespan of these GPU's is less than 2 years and more like 18 months.

At the end of the day, I personally don't want a repair done to my laptop which I know is bound to fail at some time. Why can't my laptop continue working beyond the oft quoted 5 years? I've got an old Thinkpad 600 which I still use to surf the net sometimes - why shouldn't a new laptop last as long as that?

Also why shouls customers be expected to put up with a reduced battery life due to the fans being constantly on thanks to the bios update?

Until you can provide verifiable evidence regarding your claims I'm afraid that I still agree with Paul - there are just too many reports of repairs failing for me to think otherwise.

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Please note: I am not legally qualified and therefore any postings I make are just my own personal opinion based on my experience of working for a number of years at a busy County Court.

Hi,
The problem with english language electronics forums is that there is not many of them really and You wont find these informations. Even nvidia dont realease that info to the public. They paid they share to laptop manufacturers($200 per affected laptop) and they want to forgot about it asap. Personally I dont know a single good electronics forum in UK and in my county and my 100k city I guess Im the only person who even do a reball, not mentioning GPU replacement. To add to this there is no place in UK where You can buy GPUs with DC code 09+ and I dont even know anyone who sells GPUs here. There is probably less than 5 proper BGA machines in the whole country which can do a proper repair on a bigger scale.
Even Jovy(manufacturer of the most popular BGA soldering machine in UK) and its UK support havent got a clue how to properly solder in a new GPU in a lead free motherboard.
Typical repair shops in UK simply dont do any components level repairs. They can find one shorted capacitor or a diode just behind the DC jack, they can replace a DC jack or do a bad reflow but most of them just replace the whole parts. I dont think there is many repair shops who can do a proper repair but Im sure You can find one if You look for it and ask good questions.
Most really good electronics forums are not in english and thats where You can find really good info regarding all kind of repairs. 12month warranty is a standard in Eastern Europe for all repairs of faulty nvidia GPUs when the chip has been replaced and with an excellent results but this a completely different world and people there buy a laptop for few good years not 1-2.

So why would You expect the nvidia or HP or retailers to shout or do a proper repair? This is obviously because of money. Its easier to ignore the fact, people will buy more new laptops instead of keeping old ones for 10 years. There is no difference if they will refund your purchase. You're still probably a 1% of people who get a refund. The other 99% will buy another laptop and sell/bin the old one.
Same applies not just for laptops but to cars/tv etc. I've got a 20 years old classic with not a single spot of rust on it and it will do a milion miles before it die. My neighbours on the other hand are worried about their 5-6 years rusty cars. Thats the way it is now

So again, if the nvidia chip has been manufactured in 2009+ You can be sure it wont fail.
You can find some information regarding changing the manufacture process at :
http://tinyurl.com/32o4y8c
http://tinyurl.com/3ybfnje
or at wiki.
Also because the new GPUs with a DC code 09+ heats up less than old ones the fan doesnt start up as early as with old GPUs and basicaly new bios->fan alghoritm works similar to the old one.
PS
I also have old IBM which is in use 24 hours a day for the last 2 years and it never failed

Hello katar83 and welcome to the forum dedicated to help those who are suffering from the dreaded NVIDIA defect.

Your statements are valid and true, I'm going to relist a few here:
-Clogged fans cause a rise in operating temperature
-G84 and G86 chips are defective (you also detailed the cause of the defect)
-You replace defective chips with ones that can last for an additional 2-3 years.
-Manufacturers will treat the situation as a business strategy by applying a mere reflow and charge out of warranty customers for the service.

I don't understand the conflict since you have admitted that these NVIDIA chips are defective and there is no long term solution?



So can you explain why customers are experiencing overheating with the new 310M and 330M, here's an example:
http://gizmodo.com/5524473/core-i7-macb ... water-boil

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You didn't read all my posts, did You? For the last time
nvidia chips 84/86/6100/6150 (all the popular in HP DV series and many more) manufactured before 2009 are faulty.
All these GPUs manufactured since 01.2009 are free from usual fault because nvidia changed manufacturing process and all these new GPUs use different base materials.(as per pcn releases) I wont go into details, you can google for more if interested.
Replacing GPU with a new one with a DC code 09+ is therefore a long term solution.
Replacing GPU with a new one but manufactured before 2009 is at least a 2 years solution based on typical life span of these GPUs and new bios algorithm. It may work longer but no one really knows for sure now as obviously its to early to tell. (09/2010)

Please also do not add any weblinks here which You didnt fully read or understand. The link you've posted is about Intel processors not GPUs. By the way 100C in stress is a 'no problem temp' for i7 and cooling is one of few really bad bits in apple products.

Hello Katar,



I find your above post quite offensive to imoneofthem who was stating only his opinion.

This is a friendly board and we are here specifically to help one another reach a positive resolution.

Just because you have a little knowledge of the problem does not mean that you have to be rude to others.

As I said, this is a friendly forum so please let's keep it that way.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Wasnt going to offend anyone, sorry about that.
I do however think that anyone who posts here should at least read the materials they present as a valid argument.
Anyway,
I thought its a good idea to post some new info.
Just recently I had to purchase a brand new board for the DV9000 DV9815NR Board : DA0AT2MB8H0 REV:H
I got it from authorized HP parts reseller in UK.
It didnt have any HP part numbers but it is a brand new board produced this year around april.
I've included a photo of the graphics card on the board. Please check the DC code on the chip - 1014 14th week 2010.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Graphics card on this board is free from nvidia fault. Its a Go7150

You can also get new graphics cards with a new DC code as follow :
Go6100 - used mainly in G6000/F500/F700
Go7600 - mainly used in Toshiba laptops and HP DV9000
Go8200 - mainly used in HP CQ50 CQ60 etc.
Its also possible to find the G86-630 cards used mainly in Dell XPS M1330 and DV2000 with Go8400.
NVidia also released a new updated version of that card G86-631 in 2010 which is recommended version when replacing faulty card. This card is free from nvidia faults as eutetic materials are used instead of high-lead.

All laptops which are using these cards can be fixed and its a reliable repair.

Its almost impossible to find new cards for DV9000/Dell XPS with G86-730 or G86-770 - Go8400/8600 graphics
Also it seems that there is no more Go6150 cards on the market which are used in many DV6000/DV2000/DV9000/F700/V6000/etc
I never saw a new Go7200 card with a new DC code which are mainly used in HP DV6000.

Hello Katar83,

This is the problem when there is a lack of information coming from both Nvidia and HP.

How on earth is anyone supposed to know which are new boards and which are the old ones without the part number to be able to check?

Time and time again customers have asked retailers and manufacturers for a written guarantee that the board that will be used will be free from the Nvidia defect. They have also asked for the part number of the mainboard that will be used in the repair.

This is not an unreasonable request and if the information were to be forthcoming and we could vouch for the fact that the board was indeed defect free, then there would be no problems in accepting a repair.

But customers are constantly being refused this information and so that leaves us with no confidence in the repair being offered.

The main reason for the written guarantee is that even if the board were to be newly revised, the time to manifestation can be many months and so we have yet to see if these new boards can stand the test of time.

I liked your post though, very informative and you are obviously on the ball in this matter.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.