The Nvidia Defect Forum

Hello,

My HP DV2820ea laptop failed to display an image after 15 months after purchase and after reading some of the posts on this forum and links in the evidence section of this website I contacted PC world customer service who arranged a call back within 2 days.

I was offered a 'free fixed price repair' (if that makes any sense). So I took the laptop to the store I purchased it from and spoke to the tech guys about getting a repair. I had already asked the customer service person on the phone about a written guarantee regarding the repair which they of course refused. In the store the tech guy I spoke to said he could offer me the assurance sought in the form of the written guarantee I requested but could not offer me the written guarantee on the basis that it was conceivable that the wrong board could be mistakenly replaced with one with the same fault. The repair I was told could only be guaranteed for 90 days.

However the tech guy refused the offer made by customer services on the grounds that the laptop would need to be returned to HP who would make the repair on their behalf, because my laptop model is not on HP's list of known models suffering from the nvidia defect.

Today (26/02/2010), I contacted customer services again who offered me the same 'fixed price repair' and asked me to go back to the store and ask the tech guys to ring them to confirm the offer and have the laptop booked in for repair. They advised me that the laptop would not be sent to HP and would be repaired in the shop. I asked them once again for the guarantee which they refused, but strangely or typically they also said they were under no oibligation to tell me any part numbers for any components they would replace as well as how the repair would be carried out. The offer of repair I was told, met their obligation under the sales of goods act and I was also informed that I had no reason to refuse their 'resolution' to this problem.

Considering other posts from victims of the same Nvidia HP PC world curse I think some of the excuses and strategy of the retailers (PC world in my case) should be mentioned.

1.) Your laptop and Nvidia graphics card does not have an inherent defect, it is a manufacturing or design defect.

2.) You are not covered under the sales of good act for a design defect which only proves faulty by use.

3.) Because of this you have no reason to not accept their offer of repair which is their resolve and obligation under the sales of goods act.

4.) Repair cannot be offered on the grounds that your machine's model number is not listed by the manufacturer as one that suffers from the Nvidia defect.

5.) PC world or other retailer are offering a repair as their resolve to your problem and their obligation under the sales of goods act because they are confident that the repair will be successful on the grounds that they deal with this 'sort of' problem' all the time but still can offer you no guarantee that the repair will not be 100% free from the nvidia defect or have no obligation to inform as to how they will repair your machine or what parts they will use to achieve this.

6.) It is 'common sense' that they will replace the defective component with a working defective free component but they cannot offer you a written guarantee that this is the case but can assure you all the same.

Although I have not sent any letters, after I have once again attempted to discover part numbers and how they will attempt the repair, I will be sending my laptop of to lapcure for an engineers report, before proceeding with a legal claim against PC world.

Apologies for such a long post but I hope this proves useful to someone who may end up in this position one day. I am currently studying MSc IT and have found one person on my course who has a similar HP laptop with the same Nvidia 8400m GS card, who I have warned about the potential doom awaiting them.

I will post updates (brief I promise!) as they occur.

Thanks,

JP

MMmmm I think that you will be very interested in my thread .... I have just filed a court order against PC world

Hello JP and welcome to our forum.

Isn't it great when you can tell customers what to expect from the retailers before the words have even left their mouths?

Some of the retailers think they are a law unto themselves and that they can ride roughshod over peoples Statuatory Rigts and their rights under the Sale Of Goods Act.

Quoting fom the conversation with the Tech Guys:-



Now then. What part of the Sale Of Goods Act does that fall under?

Are they trying to say that the customer has no rights whatsoever when it comes to trying to ascertain whether or not they are going to end up with another lemon of a mainboard?

Furthermore, as some of these defective laptops are reaching temperatures in excess of 120°C. I would think it is your duty, from a safety point of view if nothing else, to ensure that you don't have a defective mainbord in your laptop.

The only way that we can check to see if they are using a new board that is free from the defect is from the part number.

I also found this comment by the Tech Guys quite strange:-



What does that tell you?

How can they "misakenly" replace your mainboard with one with the same fault?

Surely they would remove all he faulty boards from their stock so as to ensure one does not "mistakenly" get used.

In my opinion the only way they can tell if a board is defective or not is to fit it and if it fails then it is defective. Well that really is not good enough considering the volume of Nvidia GPU's that are affected.

The written guarantee is known as "reserving your rights" and is used to prevent the retailer from simply offering another repair if the repair they are offering subsequently fails.

Armed with the kind of written warranty I reccomend no retailer could win in court if they subsequently refused to pay up.

Stay strong and don't let them fob you off and you will succeed.

If you require any help or advice along the way then please let me know.

Good luck and best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

mr_nice,

Hello mr nice,

After reading through various posts on this forum and particularly your own, I was inspired to continue the struggle towards a refund since we both purchased a laptop from PC world and you are making good progress. I spoke to one of my lecturers about the issue of seeking a refund via a small claims court and he said the cost of the retailer to pay someone to defend their actions will always be greater than the cost to refund your laptop. He also mentioned that it is typical for them to hold out for as long as possible which I think is just a means of them delaying the inevitable. So although they have disputed your claim as I expect they will do with mine, I think this is just there way of attempting to discourage you further.

I look forward to reading an update on your post around mid march.

Cheers,

JP

Hello Paul,

First of all I would like to thank you and the users of this forum for all the advice and information regarding the Nvidia curse and retailer refund refusal strategy. As you say its good when you know what the retailers are going to say to you before they start lying and trying to fob you off.

I was going to mention this in my first post but decided not to as I thought it was long enough, but it seemed the customer service person had someone listening to the conversation we were having. I got this impression after I told him what the tech-guys said about sending the laptop off to HP and then he put me on hold. When he returned he was a lot more defensive especially when asking about the written guarantee or confirmation of the intended repair process or part numbers. Thats when the 'PC world sales of goods act amendments' were mentioned as if he was prompted by someone to say the words 'no legal obligation' in regards to informing me about the repair process and part numbers'. After asking him about how they could be so confident about the repair without providing a guarantee, repair process and part numbers and mentioning the manufacturers who were offering such a guarantee to their direct customers, he shouted at me, something I have never experienced when dealing with a customer service person. I could not be bothered to make a complaint, just my refund will do.

I could not bring myself to go down to my local PC world store to speak to the tech guys again as to enquire about part numbers and how precisely they would attempt a repair. So I have added a job on my lapcure account and have an RMA number.

In regards to the packaging, I am having a little trouble finding the box, but I have a 'tech-air' laptop bag which I can send the laptop in. It has a protective layer inside the laptop compartment, so it should survive in transit.

Just one other thing, could you let me know when the laptop is due to be collected? I am in school on Tuesdays from 4.30pm onwards and from 1.30pm onwards on Wednesday but anytime on Monday, Thursday or Friday would be fine.

Many Thanks again,

Cheers,

JP

Hello JP,

Isn't that just scandalous behaviour?

What is so secret about these part numbers? Could it be that these are just standard boards that are going to be used in the hope that they won't fail?

What can't they behave like Staples, one of the better retailers, and just let customers pick another laptop?

Because it is my opinion that this all comes down to their bottom line, and how they can save it.

They have also slandered my company because "we are causing them a great deal of problems"

Well I feel so sorry for them - not!

If they are reading this, which I am sure they are, how about all the problems you have caused your customers by refusing to refund them for the inherently defective laptops you sold them?

I have sent you an email JP.

If your laptop is indeed inherently defective then you really cannot loose.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the email. Slandering your company! Whats next PC world hired goons! Watch your back.

As you say what about the customer. I am sure the nvdia defect related to the g8400 and g8600 was reported around june/july 2008 yet they continued to sell laptops containing this card.

Why did they continue selling defective stock? At least they could have sold a few more extended warranties by warning the customer of potential problems and save them the grief you encounter while attemping to get this problem resolved.

Cheers,

JP

*****UPDATE******

After getting my engineer's report from Paul and Lapcure, I had to contact PC world again to clarify their address. When I told them I was sending them an engineers report that proved my laptop was inherently defective and that I was seeking a full refund, they predictably tried to fob me off, but this time very politely and patronising. Apparently I am not entitled to a full refund on the grounds that the laptop worked for 15 months before the fault occured and they are under no obligation to offer nothing more than a repair according to the sales of goods act.

This conversation was quite annoying since I did not want to argue with them and simply wanted an address, but I felt it was intresting how much they wanted me to believe that they were in the right to offer me no more than a refund and in the unlikely event that the laptop was not repairable a refund (vouchers) would be offered that would not be the whole cost of the laptop I purchased. I found this a bit unfair just because as it says in my report, a £600 laptop should not stop working after 15 months and I don't think its fair to refuse a refund but offer a repair which PC World refuse to guarantee but still assure me will be free from the orginal defect.

Eventually the address was provided and I have sent my engineers report with supporting material also provided by Paul and Lapcure to defend the report. It has been over a week since I sent the letter and so I contacted PC World to check whether they had received it which of course they claimed they had not because of their backlog. No execuses were offered although I did mention that the letter stated a 7 day deadline which the PC World staff member ignored and simply stated that a reply based on how this issue would be resolved would be sent to me, eventually.

Now I have confirmation from the Royal Mail tracking site, that the letter arrived so I am wondering whether to contact PC World once more just to see if they have acknowledged my letter and what form their refusal to refund my laptop will take then proceed with a small courts claim or whether I should wait until I have received a letter from them explaining their refusal. I don't want to appear unresonable in response to their poor efforts to resolve my issue.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Many Thanks.

Hello JP,

They don't respond very fast when it comes to this kind of situation but it is amazing how quickly they respond when you want to spend money with them. Shameful!

How long has it been since you sent them the report and did you send them a letter before action with the report?

Also, did you finish the letter with the words "In this matter time is of the essence?"

If so you really don't have to give them any more time but if you are feeling generous you can give them one last call. You should tell them that when you have finished on the phone with them you will be filing your small claims action and so this is their last opportunity to settle without incurring any further costs.

If they refuse to comply then I would pop on over to www.moneyclaim.gov.uk and file your action against them.

Tedious I know but it appears to be the only language these guys understand.

If you have any questions then please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the reply. You are absolutely right about how quickly they respond when you want to buy something compared to when you are seeking a legitimate refund. However I was still shocked about how the nice but very patronising PC World staff member confidently stated how I would never get a refund and how they were only obligated to offer a repair. It just seems overly dishonest.

The only letter I have sent them with the enginners report and supporting documents is the letter before action and I did end it with "in this matter time is of the essence." The letter was sent 1st class recorded on the 10th of March and the Royal mail website confirms it was received by PC World on 12th. I last spoke to PC World on the 17th and so thought because they stated I would receive a written reply which they could discuss with me over the phone (eventually), I would give them another try tomorrow morning so at least I have tried every possible means to obtain a refund and the small courts claim is my "last resort."

At any rate it will be intresting to hear what reasons they will offer to refuse my refund despite your report and evidence to support it. I expect I will be filing the claim tomorrow so I am going to have a look over the procedure to ensure I have all the necessary information so that I don't have to contact PC World again.

Many thank,

cheers,

JP