The Nvidia Defect Forum

What a great website this is

3 years and 4 month old HP laptop.

Turned on the other day and just got blank screen and no boot.

Sent HP a letter before action on the 15th, by email. I requested a refund or replacement.

Received this reply :

"In response to your request for a replacement unit or full refund, leaving to one side liability, even if you could prove your unit was defective, we do not consider these are remedies you would be entitled to in this instance. We assume you are demanding a replacement or refund in accordance with Section 48B and Section 48C of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (such act amended by the Sale & Supply of Goods Consumer Regulations 2002/3045). In accordance with Section 48A – Section 48F the potential remedies available to you are repair or replacement or potentially reduction in the contract price or rescission.
In our view we are entitled to insist on the remedy of a free repair your unit as this is the most appropriate remedy. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) provides that a buyer is not allowed to insist on a disproportionate remedy from the seller. It is our view that the remedy of a replacement unit or reimbursement is disproportionate to the remedy of a free repair.
Whilst we do not consider you are entitled to demand another remedy (i.e. demand a refund) should you be able to, you would not be entitled to a full refund in any event in accordance with Section 48C (3). As the unit was purchased in January 2008 (approximately 3 years ago), any refund you would receive would take into account the use of the unit during this period.
To clarify, we are willing to offer you a free repair as a gesture of goodwill in full and final settlement of your purported claim. "

So I have replied disputng their view about my entitlement to claim a replacemnt/refund and insisting on written warranty etc.

Just wondered what I can expect to happen next ??

JL

Hello Jeff and welcome to our forum.

Sorry to hear that your laptop has failed.

The response that you have received is littered with legal speak so I would say that your response has come from or has been drafted by their solicitors, most probably Shoosmiths.

No problems with that, it just shows that HP have come out with guns blazing (if you know what I mean).

I would keep insisting on the written guarantee if they insist on offering a repair. If they refuse the written guarantee the I would refuse their offer of a repair.

If they then maintain that this is the only offer available then your next step is to obtain an engineers report that confirms that your laptop is indeed inherently defective.

Once you have that you should send a copy of the report along with a final letter before action.

If they refuse to capitulate after receiving that then you should issue a small claims action against them.

There is a step by step guide on this forum that will help you reach a positive resolution and that is here:- post13.html#p13

If you follow my advice in that guide then you will be successful.

If you have any questions or if you need any advice then please let me know.

Good luck and best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Well I think this doesn't give me much choice :

"We are unable to provide you with the guarantee you have requested, and are unable to provide you with the part number of the motherboard used in the repair until after the repair has been completed. We have, however, attached a copy a letter we have prepared confirming that the latest part revisions available will be used in the repair of your unit. We can also confirm that in accepting the offer of a free repair your rights under legislation remain reserved. In the unlikely event that the repair is not successful then depending on the fault we will consider providing you with one of the other remedies prescribed by the Sale of Goods Act (as amended)

Finally we wish to re-iterate that a buyer is not entitled to insist on a remedy where that remedy is disproportionate in comparison to another. It is our position that the remedy of a replacement or refund is disproportionate to the remedy of a free repair.

Should you decline this offer and proceed to issue legal proceedings then we reserve the right to rely on this correspondence in Court and claim back our costs from you on the grounds that the matter could have been resolved following this correspondence."

Hello Jeff,

Why are they so reticent at giving a written guarantee stating that the parts they will use will be free of the defect?



Do you have a copy of that letter and if so what exactly does it state?

What really angered me is when they stated in your previous post:-



What do they mean by "purported claim"? There is absolutely nothing "purported" about your claim otherwise why would they make an offer of a free repair?

I find that statement to be crass and just so typical of the disrespectful way that they treat customers who were unfortunate enough to have purchased one of these inherently defective laptops from them.

Why also are they unable to provide a part number? Surely, as the manufacturer of these laptops, they should know which board will be used?

I think that it is wholly unacceptable that they are refusing to provide both the guarantee or the part number.

Considering the fact that HP have not exactly been truthful about which laptops are affected by this defect why on earth should you just accept a repair without first ascertaining that the repair will be undertaken using parts that are indeed free of the defect?

There is nothing unreasonable about this considering the defect affects laptops in the field plus their respective spare parts.

HP have been taken to court many, many times after offering a repair and their either settled at the 11th hour or they lost.

Please let me know the contents of the letter that they sent and I will advise further.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Here we go :

HP Notebook PC Repair Update
November 8, 2010
HP Notebook Business Unit
Quality, Service and Customer Experience
HP is confident in the quality of repairs that we and our authorized service providers perform on HP notebook products.
We maintain a proven, long standing Total Quality Management system and an ongoing commitment to continuous quality improvement. This quality system extends beyond our products and includes quality processes, service and support that are continually improved. As an example, when a product comes in for repair, HP uses the latest replacement part revisions available. This practice helps us deliver improved customer experience and helps minimize the potential for future repairs.

Hello Jeff,

I am sorry if I sound cynical here but that is marketing blurb if ever I saw it.

Note the date of that memo:- November 2010 - It doesn't inspire you with confidence does it?

That does not comply with the guarantee that was asked of them and tells us nothing about the parts that they will use.

This situation (the Nvidia defect) is unique and and all other rules show go out of the window when there is a slight chance that the replacement parts could be as defective as the parts they are replacing.

There have been quite a number of court cases now (some were won at court/mediation but are subject to non-disclosure orders) and the judges in all those cases agreed with me with regard to the fact that the retailer had failed to provide evidence that the repair will be of a satisfactory quality.

That blurb that they sent you has been bandied many times before and is, like I said, purely marketing spiel.



That sounds like a threat to me. If they had confidence in their repairs then what is the problem with offering this specific guarantee? In my opinion they do not have confidence in the repair otherwise they would be more than happy to offer this.

I would press on and let the judge decide what is reasonable.

I will help you with your case and we will compile some information on other relevant claims.

What do you think?

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
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What is the Nvidia Defect?
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Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

I agree, so I need to formulate a reply to their letter, any suggestions ?

Hello Jeff,

I would reply back to them along the following lines:-



What do you think?

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
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Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
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What is the Nvidia Defect?
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Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Having read some of the legislation, it appears on the face of it that the repair has to bring the goods into a state where they conform with the contract ie they are defect free.

Unless they give a written guarantee and use parts that do not contain the issues in question, they are not fulfilling the repair correctly.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/197 ... e-c1108980 ::

“repair” means, in cases where there is a lack of conformity in goods for the purposes of section 48F of this Act, to bring the goods into conformity with the contract

Conformity with the contractE+W+S+N.I..For the purposes of this Part, goods do not conform to a contract of sale if there is, in relation to the goods, a breach of an express term of the contract or a term implied by section 13, 14 or 15 above

Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality..
(2A)For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances..
(2B)For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—.
(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,.
(b)appearance and finish,.
(c)freedom from minor defects,.
(d)safety, and.
(e)durability..

Hello Jeff,

Excellent piece of information there.

Print it out and blind the judge with it.



The written guarantee is what I would call the reasonable test.

Would it be reasonable for a customer to want some form of evidence that the repair to the inherently defective laptop that they purchased would be free from the self same defect?

A number of judges have ruled that the lack of the written guarantee is unreasonable considering the circumstances.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.