The Nvidia Defect Forum

My laptop HP Pavilion dv9385ea purchased in August 2007 for: £999.98 completely failed on 02/11/2010 with the black screen. It has NVIDIA Geforce Go 7600 GPU, I wrote to the retailer, quoting the SOGA and Ndivia defect and they have responded that the machine worked for 41 months therefore it can not be Ndivia defect problem, however they will if I take to their technician at a cost of £49.99 to me, they will decide what problem the laptop has, but under the SOGA they can not do anything and basically they said go away.

My question is this if I take it to their technician would he be independant and are they correct in saying that if it worked for 41 months then it can be Ndivia defect problem? I don't see my laptop on the list, does anyone had a similar problem.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

tmb

Hello Tmb and welcome to our forum.

Take absolutely no notice of them when they state that because your laptop worked for 41 months then it cannot be the Nvidia defect.

I did a quick check on the HP support site for your model of laptop and found the following:- http://tinyurl.com/65pbszj

This is the BIOS update page for your model of laptop. On the 25th February 2008 HP released a BIOS update for your model of laptop. The purpose of the update, according to HP, was to:-



This is proof that from as early as 25th February 2008 HP must have been well aware of the potential for your laptop to overheat - otherwise why issue a BIOS upgrade that switches the fans on continuously to the detriment of the battery?

Don't let them fob you off, it is absolute baloney when they claim that it cannot be the Nvidia defect. How can they possibly state that?

I would reject their offer of a £49.99 inspection as this would not be independent and could b biased.

There is a step by step guide in this forum that will help you reach a positive resolution and that is here:- post13.html#p13

If you follow my advice in that guide then you will be successful.

Any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

The big retailer is asking for a report, I have booked the laptop to be inspected. They will make a decision based on the report.

Hello Tmb,

I have now sent you an email with further instructions.

Any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Hi,

I also own an HP Pavilion dv9385ea, which failed with a black screen about 4 weeks ago. It can run under Vista in Safe Mode on an external monitor. It was bought from Costco in May 2008. I always felt it ran rather hot.

Costco originally referred me to their US-based electronic service centre, and then after their non-compliance, to HP; HP(UK) rebuffed me immediately with the comment "Well, graphics chips can just break (sic)." However, encouraged by your website, I persisted, asking for re-imbursement or replacement because of inherent defect. Costco did take up the cudgels on my behalf with HP, but seemed to find their response difficult and inconsistent, even to them. Reportedly, HP admitted a fault, then later (from higher up the organisation) they claimed a mistake had been made and no inherent fault existed on the model. Costco claimed that mine was the first machine they had sold to exhibit the defect, to their knowledge.

Finally, in a confusing turn of events, I have been offered an in-house repair separately by both HP and Costco, but with only a 90 day warranty. So far I've been unable to contact their service centres or engineers to establish what the repairs would be or which components would be used.

I've got 3 questions:

1)Do you know of any pin-compatible revised GPU chip or re-designed mainboard available that would allow a satisfactory defect-free repair?

2)Is it known for sure that the predominant effect of the Bios Upgrade sp38537.exe, ver.F.2B, recommended by HP for dv9385ea, is to turn on all the fans unconditionally, rather than the obscure and vague justification given in the
Fix/Enhancement paragraph of the Update Description?

3)Is there any estimate, however rough, of the number of failed machines or a failure rate due to the Nvidia GPU defect?

It seems I'll have no option but to issue a version of your sample first letter to the retailer. Many thanks for starting and maintaining the website, and providing the information about the defect. I've found the site very supportive.

Hello Hpsauce and welcome to our forum.

Sorry to hear of the problems you are having resolving the issue with your laptop.

It never ceases to amaze me how HP can continually deny that there are problems with models of laptop that are not on their wholly inadequate "list of affected models".


I did a quick check on the HP support site for your model of laptop and found the following:- http://tinyurl.com/65pbszj

This is the BIOS update page for your model of laptop. On the 25th February 2008 HP released a BIOS update for your model of laptop. The purpose of the update, according to HP, was to:-



This is proof that from as early as 25th February 2008 HP must have been well aware of the potential for your laptop to overheat - otherwise why issue a BIOS upgrade that switches the fans on continuously to the detriment of the battery?

I note that you purchased the laptop in May 2008. Why did HP allow the continued sale of a laptop that they knew overheated? Surely they should have ceased sale of your model of laptop as soon as this problem surfaced?

They didn't and now owners such as yourself are stuck in this situation - pretty scandalous if you ask me.

Please find below the answers to your questions.



HP have claimed that they have some "newly redesigned boards" available but refuse to back up their claims that the board will be defect free with a written guarantee confirming this. In my opinion this shows the confidence, or lack of it, they have in the board.

There are some new Nvidia GPU's in circulation so it could well be that the board does contain a different revision of the Nvidia GPU. Unfortunately they will have no doubt used the same lead free solder to bond the GPU to the mainboard which means that if the GPU doesn't fail then then solder balls on the BGA grid could.

Hence the need for the written guarantee.



When Nvidia realised there was a problem with their GPU's they entered into talks with HP and Dell in order to try and devise a workaround the potential for the laptops to fail prematurely through overheating. In order to do this both HP and Dell released BIOS updates that would switch the fans on continuously to the detriment of the battery.

The update description for the update says it all.

Looking further into the Hewlett Packard support website it also states the following:-



You will note that it states "......reduce the likelihood of future system issues". It does not state "......will remove the likelihood of future system issues".

In my opinion that statement says it all.



That is a very difficult one to answer as this problem is affecting laptops worldwide and so it is very difficult for me to be able to even hazard a guess at what the numbers may be.

I would say that as a percentage it will certainly be in the double figures.

I am sorry I cannot be more precise on that question but I do not want to answer it with erroneous information.

The next step, like you correctly stated, is to send Costco a letter before action. If they fail to respond positively to that them you should proceed to the next step in the step by step guide.

I hope the above helps.

If you have any questions then please let me now.

Good luck and best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
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Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Thanks for the answers to my questions, Paul.

HP have now clarified that I am being offered a free repair only because, unfortunately, I was initially misled by them into thinking I had a machine using the defective Nvidia graphics chip, and thus had my expectations raised. So, all they are doing is honouring that original mistaken statement. They emphatically deny there is an inherent defect, so the repair warranty is only their normal 90 days.

Apart, presumably, from their knowledge of the component make-up of their own machines, HP's ground for refuting the inherently defective GPU claim seems to be that the provision of an image on an external screen under Safe Mode on my Pavilion dv9385ea proves that the GPU is working after a fashion; so, it is not inherently defective, just "a bit broken" - which can happen to any component.

Can anyone tell me the source of the graphics function in Safe Mode? I had always believed that in Safe Mode, the very minimum of device handlers were loaded into the Operating System, so as to maximise the chances of a successful Start-up. Since the GPU and corresponding device handlers are pretty complex, I'd believed that there was an elementary graphics function provided elsewhere, to handle the BIOS messages and other start-up info and, possibly, the Safe Mode.

I was interested to learn of the "Updated Components" of both Nvidia and HP. Do you have any hot-links or other references to these?

Can I take it that lists of the component codes of devices admitted to be defective, and the justification for some of the same or similar families to be condemned and others not, are not readily available or subject to commercial security?

I appreciate your point about the wording of the fan-control update justification. Thanks again for your help.

Hello HPSauce,

It is quite possible that a laptop will be able to display in safe mode to an external screen but not in normal mode.

This is because when the laptop is in safe mode there are no drivers loaded and so the laptop is working in VGA mode and so there is no stress placed on the GPU.

I have seen plenty of laptops where there was a display to the external screen but not to the LCD panel. After performing the rework test the laptop correctly displayed to both the LCD panel and the external screen.

How can HP state:-



HP must know of the problems with your model of laptop otherwise why release the BIOS update that switched the fans on continuously?



I have no evidence of or information relating to the updated components that are allegedly in circulation. Whenever we ask for the part numbers to confirm such claims our request is turned down.

Even the customers who are offered repairs are refused information as to the part numbers being used.

Requests for written guarantees confirming that the parts to be used will be free from the defect are also turned down. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary why should anyone accept an offer of a repair?

If you are not happy with their offer of a free repair (how magnanimous of them) then you should sue them in order to reach the resolution you deserve.

What do you think?

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Just an unpate, comet have settled my claim plus report fee. though I would have gone further in issuing thru claims court for more money but time did not permit me for travel reasons.

However I have sold my dud laptop on the auction site which made up for the shortfall!

Thanx Paul for your help and this forum.

regards

tmb

Hello Tmb,

Well done on your success

I am really pleased that you have managed to reach a positive resolution without the need to proceed to litigation.

I am also really pleased that you found us and that we were able to help you.

Good luck and best wishes for the future.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.