The Nvidia Defect Forum

Hi all,

Like most, I've got a problem with the graphics card in my laptop. The laptop is about 3.5 years old, and from a company called Novatech based in Portsmouth (I haven't found anything relating to Novatech on the forum et). I'll post a few bits about it incase that's important:

Uniwell P55IM
Intel Core 2 Duo CPU T7500 2.20GHz
4 GB (3 usable) (Came with 2GB)
32 Bit Windows 7 OS (Came with 32bit Vista)
Nvidia Gefore 8600M GS
Cost around £900 3.5 years ago

It has been back and forth through returns with Novatech under various warranties at least four times. Each time was either due to graphical errors caused by overheating or graphics card errors. This has resulted in a new graphics card, motherboard and cooling system over the years, all under warranty. Two days ago it, again, had a driver error, followed by repeating memory dumps and six tiled screens across the monitor. I posted on the Novatech official forums and a popular independent advisor introduced me to the idea of this inherent defect, which lead me to this site.

Only now am I learning that I believe that model of graphics card suffers from the inherent Nvidia defect. If someone could confirm this 100% for me I'd appreciate it. So after looking through the site I think I should talk to Novatech and do the "inherently defective, sale of goods act" route etc, but I'd like to be sure this is the way to go first. I have stood in this particular companies returns room for half an hour arguing before my rights were adhered to regarding a £75 mouse that broke after 5 months when they wanted to give me a refund -£ for the time I'd used it, so I don't imagine they will make the process easy.

So thanks for any help anyone can provide. From what I can see and the problems over the years it looks to me like a prime example of the problems highlighted in this site, I'd just like to be sure that when people have had this problem with this card in the past that they got somewhere with it. Also I am unsure (if I should) what to request. I've seen requesting a replacement laptop or a refund is what I should ask for, but as it's 3.5 years old and cost about £900 at the time of purchase it seems unlikely that they would go for that?

Many thanks,

Twentyonehundred

Hello Twentyonehundred and welcome to our forum.

Sorry to hear of the problems you have been experiencing with your laptop.

The problems you describe are manifestations of the defect and so coupled with the fact that your laptop contains one of the more prolific of the defective GPU's, the 8600, then I would say it is highly likely that your laptop is inherently defective.

The fact that your laptop is 3.5 years old doesn't matter. The retailer will have to offer a resolution other than a repair, which is a replacement laptop or a partial refund. If it is a partial refund then it would equate to the 1.5 to 2.5 years of unused usage.

How did you pay for the laptop (cash/credit card/debit card)? If you paid by credit card then you have extra protection.

There is a step by step guide on this forum that will help you reach a positive resolution and that is here:- post13.html#p13

This takes you step by step through the process required to reach a resolution. If you follow my advice in that guide then you will be successful.

If you have any questions or if you need any advice then please let me know.

Good luck and best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the advice and the link, that page is what I planned on following.

I just contacted Novatech through their online tech support chat, and received a small attempt to casually excuse the issue saying they had no replacement cards in stock, or the ATI equivalent. He even suggested I may find some on eBay. I suggested that there was an inherent defection with the card series and asked whether Novatech accepted or acknowledged this fact, as it was quite common knowledge and I believed that even Nvidia acknowledged this defect. He went away for a whole half hour to "discuss it with a manager".

His solution was to return the laptop to them to "have a look at the laptop for me", whilst reiterating that they had no replacement cards. I think they must know as well as you and me that this will not be fixable without the replacement of a card (this is true right? there's no bodge job they can do for a temp quick fix that you've heard of?) So I would guess that the best course of action is to give it to them for now, as it's a free check (except an hours worth of driving). Then whatever offer they make regarding a solution I can accept or revoke and push the issue further. Do you think that this is the best course of action? Or should I contact them again and demand a refund or replacement? I am trying to follow the advised stages, but they have offered to look over the laptop for free, which is unusual.

Again, many thanks,

Chris

Hello Chris,

I would not let them have a look at your laptop unless they are only going to diagnose the fault and as long as they are not going to try and repair it.

If they have no replacement cards that are free from the defect then I cannot see the benefit of letting them "have a look at it"

I would tell them that you are not happy with their response and that you want either an offer or a replacement laptop or a refund. I would further tell them that unless they comply then you will have no option but to obtain an engineers report and that you will use that in the Small Claims Court against them.

What you don't want is to let them "look" at the laptop and for them to perform a reflow and for them to then claim it is fixed.

If they have no replacement cards then in my opinion there is little point in sending it in to them at this point.

Unless you can tie them down to a firm offer of a resolution I would continue with the step by step guide.

I hope this helps.

Any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

That's great, very appreciative of the help here. I'll get in contact again and push these points. Another quick point I'm not 100% on, what sort of a refund should I be asking for? Original price less a % for the use over time? If so is there a standard calculation for this per year or something? The whole original price?

Thanks for the help, I'll post again when I know what's happening next.

*Also yes I am almost positive it was paid for by credit card, definitely not cash.

I see in the draft letter now that it asks for a full refund on purchase price.

I had a long conversation again with a guy from tech support on the live chat feature, resulting in him telling me it was out of warranty. He then however spoke to the head of aftersales who had some conflicting comments.

She said firstly that 3.5 years is an acceptable lifespan for a laptop, (this was around £950 new, with at least 4 returns for problems). But even though it had apparently run its worth, she would be willing to negotiate some refund price minus costs for usage over the years, and take this from the price of a new laptop. I haven't discussed exact figures yet, however I am going to ask for the full amount and a proper refund as I may not want to replace the laptop from that company.

So now instead of communicating to this woman through a tech support chat guy, I have her name and email address. I am considering sending an email using basically the head office letter as a draft, including the seven days to reply with notice of a replacement laptop or a full refund. I presume this will be okay as although it is not a head office address, it may get results as she is the head of after-sales for presumably the store? Or would you in your experiences advise I not include anything about an engineers report / 7 days to reply yet, and just outline what I would like, again, quoting the sale of goods act? I don't think that will get results and that it will go on to higher levels, but I want to do it properly and not to not start giving out 7 day reply periods prematurely, to the wrong persons.

Chris

Hello Chris,



Absolute baloney! The minimum lifespan of a laptop is five years and some retailers base the lifespan on six years.

She is wrong when she states that 3.5 years is acceptable. It would be acceptable to them as that would mean that any refund would be significantly reduced. It is most certainly not acceptable to the customer who has paid £950 for the laptop.



Reading between the lines this seems to mean that you wouldn't get a refund at all but more of a discount against a further purchase from them.

This is unacceptable and if there is to be a cash refund then it is up to you where you spend it, they cannot tie you in to such a deal.

I appreciate that the letter states that you want a full refund and this is so that when you start to negotiate a refund you are starting from a higher position rather than stating from the onset that you want a lower amount.

Even if this went to court you probably wouldn't get a full refund as this would constitute betterment as you have had some benefit from the laptop.

Although saying that you have had four repairs on the laptop which tells me that it is a bit of a lemon.

You could reasonably argue that you have not had unhindered use during the time that you have owned the laptop and so could negotiate a slightly higher refund that you would normally receive.

To be honest considering the fact that you have already communicated with them and they have given you inaccurate information and seem to be fobbing you off I would send her the letter before action via recorded delivery rather than by email.

This is so that you have proof that you have sent the letter and are complying with what is known as "pre-action protocol".

If after seven business you have not received a response then you should give them a quick call and should tell them that you are now about to obtain an engineers report and are they prepared to make you an offer now before further costs are incurred.

If they comply then great. If not then you need to move on to the next step in the step by step guide.

Try not to get into protracted conversations with them via email or phone as, in my opinion, this would just be a waste of your time and from experience generally does not result in a positive resolution.

I hope the above helps.

Any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Hi again,

To update my situation.

I have given the warning of what I am prepared to do, and given seven working days. I have had absolutely no reply now so am going to call them tomorrow and say as I have had no reply I will begin the process of obtaining an engineers report and filing small claims court papers within 24 hours.

Just checking this is the way to go, and that I will win this should it go to a small claims court. The defect is acknowledged by Nvidia as well as Dell etc, so does that mean that Nvidia and the rest have done replacements and refunds like Novatech is refusing to do? Has this often gone to the claims court with people and have they often won?

Many thanks,

Chris

Chris,

I joined this forum in September 2009. Since then there have been less than 10 cases which have gone as far as a court hearing - most of the time the retailer will settle before the final hearing date.

As far as I'm aware, every case which has gone as far as a final hearing has been won by the customer.

Unfortunately a lot of retailers will leave it until the last possible minute before settling because they know that a certain percentage of people will give up at each stage.

What an appalling way to treat customers!

_________________
Please note: I am not legally qualified and therefore any postings I make are just my own personal opinion based on my experience of working for a number of years at a busy County Court.

Ah yeah good, I was kinda hoping that would end up being the case for me, so it's good to hear that it does happen.

Yes this company in my experience seems to excel in denying statutory consumer rights. I can't begin to fathom how much money it has saved them in the past. I'm just doing a final check really of the details, I've definitely got a defective card, it's acknowledged by Nvidia etc and that other companies have take responsibility and handed out refunds / replacements.

Chris