The Nvidia Defect Forum

Hello Ben,

Well it is good news that Toshiba found the problem but I have to say that I hate it when they state that they will offer a "goodwill fix free of charge".

There is nothing "goodwill" about it but their legal responsibility.

In the absence of the written guarantee I would reject their offer of a repair on the grounds that they have failed to provide any evidence that the repair will be of a satisfactory quality.

Stick to your guns, be persistent and you will get there in the end.

You are over halfway there already.

Good luck for when they contact you again.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Hi Paul, I've just heard back from Tosh:

"Hi Ben, I have discussed this further with my manager and the engineer.
We are confident that the repair which now has modified parts will resolve the fault, therefore we will guarantee the repair for one year for this graphics issue only.
We would only look to repair the unit and not replace. Any other fault will be chargeable."

I presume my next step is to ask for part number of the repair components, which I guess they will not give me. Then 'letter before action'?

Or do I go straight to the latter?

Hmm...

Ben

Hello Ben,

You should ask Toshiba for the written guarantee stating that the part to be used will be free from the defect.

You should also ask them for the part number of the card that they intend to use so that we can check to see if it is indeed a newly revised part.

Once you have that then please let me know and I will advise further.

If they refuse to give you either then you should send them the letter before action. Please ensure that if you do have to send this letter that you send it via recorded delivery. Please also ensure that you keep a copy of the letter and postal receipt.

I hope the above helps.

Any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

And so we continue...

A few emails have been sent back and forth since my last post, all with an aim to getting aither an acceptance or rejection of the written gaurantee, plus the part numbers. Here are my questions, followed by Toshiba's response:

Q1: Based on your reply... please could you send me the part numbers that your engineers theoretically intend to use to repair my machine.

Q2: Are you also saying that:
a. Toshiba will not send me the written gaurantee as described in my previous emails?
b. Toshiba will repair my machine after any future failure of the GPU, OR only upto and including one year after the repair?

Reply:
"The parts to repair the notebook would be a new system board (P000472650) and spring (P000481600).
No, we will agree to repair the notebook for the same issue only, and only if this fails again within a year of the repair."

Paul, are you able to check these numbers easily? If not, I'll conduct a Google search at next opportunity.

Like wading through treacle but

Thanks

Ben

Hello Ben,

Well I have checked that board and whilst it may indeed be "new" this is by no means a recently revised board.

This can be evidenced by the fact that there are a huge raft of these boards that are available for sale as refurbished.

One would not expect to see this if the board is indeed newly revised as there would not be enough time for them to make their way to the refurbished market. This does not just apply to the UK as these boards are available worldwide as refurbished.

I would therefore keep pressing for the written guarantee on the grounds that we can find no evidence that this is indeed a newly revised board that is free from the defect.

I hope the above helps.

Any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Thanks again for your help Paul, much appreciated as always!

I did get back in touch with Tosh, again requesting the guarantee. See response below. Do you know what they mean by 'spring'? Is this likely to overcome the GPU issue?

"As I say this a brand new system board and a new “spring” which fixes the fault.
I will not offer a written guarantee to replace the unit. We will offer to repair the unit for the same fault if it occurs again up to a year after repair, this is our final offer.
Would you like me to escalate this to my manager or to the legal team for further proceedings?"

I'm tempted to ask exactly what the function of this spring is..?!

Ben

Hello Ben.

I have tried to find some information on the "spring" that they refer to. A Google search reveals that Toshiba P/N P000481600 is an insulator, so not quite sure what that is for.

I would indeed ask Toshiba what the "spring" is and what function it serves.

Reading between the lines I wonder if the "spring" or insulator is a thermal pad of some fashion that sits between the heatsink and GPU.

If that is the case then I would say a thermal pad is not nearly as good as direct contact (with thermal paste) of the heatsink and GPU.

Their offer to "repair the unit if the same fault occurs again up to a year after repair" is, in my opinion, not good enough.

When they say that the mainboard is brand new, is this a board that has a newly revised GPU?

Or is it just another of the same mainboard with modified thermals?

A board with modified thermals is not necessarily free of the defect and has most certainly not had the defect repaired. The modified thermals would be a work-around rather than a repair.

Let's see what they say the "spring is and I will advise further.

I would also ask them if the board contains a newly revised GPU or is is just a standard board with modified thermal protection.

See what they say then pop back here and let me know and I will advise further.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

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Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Well I did ask for a very specific and detailed response to the question, 'what exactly is the spring, from what is it made and what function does it serve?'. Response as follows:

"I can advise the spring is metal and it is modified to hold the GPU in place, the system board is not modified in any way.
The fault was occurring due to the spring not having enough tension, this spring has now been modified to fix the error."

Which does seem to indicate no finger being pointed at the GPU itself!?

Time for the Letter Before Action?

Ben

Hello Ben,



So, they are trying to say that the clip that holds the heatsink in place was the cause of the failure of your laptop.

I cannot agree with that due to the fact that the self same GPU that is in your make and model of laptop is present in other laptops that are also failing due to the defect and there is no mention from the manufacturers of those laptops that the heat sink was the cause of the problem.



I couldn't agree more.

Good luck with this stage of the process.

Any questions please let me know.

Best wishes

Paul
The Admin Team

_________________
=======================================================
Calculate the minimum refund that you would be entitled to.
FAQ's
Why you should not accept a repair
Links to evidence
What is the Nvidia Defect?
Step by step help to getting a refund
Do you need an engineers report?
=======================================================

If you like what you see on this forum and would like to help then please post links to this forum in other forums or blogs. The more people we can help the better.


Please note that I am not legally qualified and I only offer my own personal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice for formal clarification of advice I give.

Paul, can I just thank you again for your prompt responses to my posts! Always helpful and greatly appreciated

Now things might be getting interesting! Upon my turning down their offer of repair on the grounds they are not prepared to offer the written gaurantee, and requesting Toshiba return my machine in the same condition in which it was sent, I have now had an 'offer' from them:



Hmm... might take me a while to find it (although they surely have this, since I bought the machine direct from them?!) but I'm intrigued to know what they might offer.

Watch this space...